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"Do you think Great Danes should be included in the AKC field event, DRAFTING? [183 votes total]
 
YES (106) 58%
NO (77) 42%
 


 
Post Info  Comment
Posted By: A Question

Posted On: 12 days ago
Views: 218
 
Danes in Coon Hound Trails

Since Danes have been known to chase racoons should the parent club petition AKC to include Danes in Coonhound trials?


 
Posted By: GDanes

Posted On: Aug 27
Views: 288
 
carting

I believe, and have witnessed our breed do a wonderful job at carting, see the gdcaz website for more details, I think every one will especially enjoy the photos it almost appears most of the clubs danes do cart and everyone looks to be haveing a great time,at that.
We have sold danes that have been trained to be hearing hear dogs for couples with newborn babies, tracked children along ditch banks of water to retrieve childrenswept away, and hunted along side of my husband pointing,flushing and ocassionally catching a pheasent in mid air. They have always protected us, or alerted us to danger such as fire ect., and recently have been even trained to be suport dogs to the disabled...Wheather it be obedience, or therapy work at your local hospital or nursing home, in the field or behind a cart ,I think all should have the option to do what ever both owner and dog are willing to give a try. They should not just be a pretty head piece or why breed for correct structure? I think these wounderful dogs will if given the chance,,, pull a sled if it meant a fun romp in the snow with thier best friend?


 
Posted By: Answer to why not

Posted On: Aug 25
Views: 357
 
Carting

You can do whatever events you like with your dog. However, even though you want to and this poll sees more in favor than not, you will never see that percentage of people doing this with their danes. I have been ringside watching
danes get ridiculed for agility. Quite frankly,
I to think it looks proposterous to see a dane
up on the A-Frame and cat-walk. How dangerous
for our breeds long legs and to be that high up.
Not something ours were made for. Although not
a pretty picture it paints, our dogs fit nicely into the hound group in my opinion.


 
Posted By: Why not??

Posted On: Aug 25
Views: 360
 
Carting/drafting

It seems that people get very upset when groups want to interfere with their rights to crop or breed, etc so what about my right to enter my Working Group breed in AKC performance events?! Drafting, coursing, whatever I will make sure my dog doesn't get injured and is trained properly. No, they can't crossover to everything like Earthdog or Steeplechase because they would lose but I don't understand WHY the parent club would not want to see Danes excel in everything possible! I personally find it *very* embaressing that out of all the Working Group breeds that ours was only one of three that said, "Nah...." It just makes us look like we really should be in the Non-sporting group or something...


 
Posted By: Johnzer

Posted On: Aug 23
Views: 468
 
re drafting plus

Wow Scott you breeding bullenbissers at Rokadane now (G) why stop there I am sure some of our dogs ancestors were at the coliseum in Rome and had Christians thrown to them... lets start that up again.... bet we could sell tickets to Alkida members.... but seriously folks I would like to see both lure coursing and carting added to the AKC activities our dogs can do. I am all in favor for more activities we can do with our dogs ...........see you at the nationals

John


 
Posted By: Scot Billings

Posted On: Aug 21
Views: 693
 
Drafting Plus.

It was stated: "Our breed has been a large game hunter, a war dog, a protection dog, a carting dog, and a companion dog… and has proven himself capable, why is he not allowed to compete...".

During the same period that the Germans claim to have developed the "large game hunter" the Great Dane was being used in Spain as a "Bull Baiter" & proved himself capable. Should we also include this in the Perfomance Events?


 
Posted By: Johnzer

Posted On: Aug 21
Views: 708
 
RE: to making a comparison

IN reply to


I dont own a draft type here


Draft animal? Think of draft horses, big muscular, masculine, clumbersome.

Compare to a thoroughbred bred horse, sleek,
pretty, graceful.

Great Dane
Burmese Mountain Dog
St. Bernard

Which above group does you feels exemplifies
the Dane?


I have always Believed that what The Great Dane is to the Dog World, the Friesian is to the horse world, one of the oldest of horse breeds, a light draft breed, used today as a dressage and driving horse and hunter jumper… If you have never seen one, look them up on the Internet or come on over and will introduce you to my boy… Beauty power elegance. They have so much in common with our Danes… The Friesian is my boy the polish Arab is my wife’s, and yes we used to do the horse show thing and the wife used to be a judge… Did a little eventing in my youth. And I know the back of a cutting horse well ……


The Great Dane the Burmese mountain Dog and the Saint Bernard all have one thing in common they are mosslers, all come from the mastiff stock… As our Dane is a Light Mastiff


John


 
Posted By: Johnzer

Posted On: Aug 21
Views: 710
 
repy to carting....

First of all Lizz does the best job on line of telling the history of our breed her site. http://www.msnusers.com/THEGREATDANEINHISTORYANDART/welcomepage.ms

John,
I went to the site you suggested. In several references it said cart dogs. Nowhere have I ever seen Danes referenced as cart dogs
(except for running alongside, never pulling)
If that is what you choose to do with your dane fine. I personally dont believe that is what our breed was intended and bred to do.
Next you may want to try your danes as bird dogs as well. All the power to you, just not something I see the majority of danites following, just as with this carting notion.
Coursing would be great for our breed and close to what they were intended to do in the past.


Anonymous,


I have in my personal collection at least four old postcards and pictures showing Danes being used in carting the oldest dated in the 1870s shows a brace of Harley Danes being used to pull a milk cart and make deliveries I believe this photo was made in Belgium or Holland as the people in it are wearing wooden shoes, I also have photos of Danes being used to pull machine gun carts and ammunition carts dating from the early 1900s, and I have seen more from that period both civil and military. They occasionally show up on eBay….. That’s where I have purchased most of mine from, also go back and read my first post the article I quoted is from the GDCA home page and is written by the Official GDCA historian, basically what he is stating is that the first German Great Dane Standard was written by people who actually used these dogs for carting… at least that’s what I am getting out of the article … And I agree with you on Danes being used as Carriage dogs, there is a lot of early documentation and mention in historical documents, of them being used for this purpose long before the Dalmatian came along, as a matter of fact the Dalmatian at one time was known as the Petit Adonis, another misnomer as we know today…..

Dorothy Nichols in her book on the Great Dane mentions a CH bitch that was used as an upland bird dog, and I know personally of two others that have been used as such…

And coursing has been a pet peeve with me for as long as I have been in Danes, the problem is from what I understand, is with the parent club, occasionally a window opens up when the parent club can ask to be included in theses trails so that there breed can compete, and unfortunately there has never been enough interest with the Dane people for the parent club to pursue this, and ask to be included, frankly I don’t understand this, as this is what our breed was originally breed for… Our breed has been a large game hunter, a war dog, a protection dog, a carting dog, and a companion dog… and has proven himself capable, why is he not allowed to compete………. I think I am finally going to have to break down and finally become an AKC delegate for some of my clubs… and just see how much trouble I can cause (VBG)

A large dog, well-muscled and with sturdy bone, was needed for this task, hmmm sound like a Dane can fit in that description (G)

But there are a lot of things that give me hope who would have ever thought there would be as many Danes competing in agility as there are, and as for me if this passes I will go out and buy a dog cart and take my Rojon Brindle Bitch and compete for a drafting or carting title, I think it will be fun for both me and my dog.

There used to be a lady who had a special chariot made up, and at the Nationals used a brace of Danes to pull her around while she was dressed up as a Greek goddess at the costume party…. What a site to see (G)



John


 
Posted By: Case in Point

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 783
 
Case in Point

One of the saddest comments I have to make, is many years ago I contacted Martha Brock about breeding to Can. OTCH, AM/CAN CH. Danehaven's Rolling Thunder, UDT, Can UDTDX, WDX, U-CDX, HC, TDI, he was quite old at the time and already been neutered, and was told I was the first one to have asked, nobody else had ever asked to breed to him…. Here was the most titled Dane in history and no one ever used him…. And he lived a long normal healthy life……… I think this was a great loss to the breed,

EXACTLY THE POINT!
The vast majority of dane people are not interested in going that direction with their dogs.


 
Posted By: Making a comparison

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 791
 
I dont own a draft type here

Draft animal? Think of draft horses, big muscular, masculine, clumbersome.

Compare to a thoroughbred bred horse, sleek,
pretty, graceful.

Great DAne
Bermese Mountain Dog
St. Bernard

Which above group do you feel exemplifies
the dane?


 
Posted By: anonymous

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 792
 
Carting

The historical essence of the Bernese Mountain Dog is that it has been a farm dog of the midland regions of Switzerland, mostly around the city of Berne. In that capacity, it was primarily used as a companion and watchdog to the farmer and his family. It alerted his owner to unfamiliar visitors. It may have been used as a dog to pull a cart. A large dog, well-muscled and with sturdy bone, was needed for this task

John,
I went to the site you suggested. In several references it said cart dogs. Nowhere have I ever seen danes referenced as cart dogs
(except for running alongside, never pulling)
If that is what you choose to do with your dane fine. I personally dont believe that is what our breed was intended and bred to do.
Next you may want to try your danes as bird dogs as well. All the power to you, just not something I see the majority of danites following, just as with this carting notion.
Coursing would be great for our breed and close to what they were intended to do in the past.


 
Posted By: Johnzer

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 812
 
draffting test regulation link

http://www.bmdca.org/pages/Draft_Test_Regulations.php I just did a search on AKC Drafting and found this site,


enjoy
John


 
Posted By: Scot Billings

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 843
 
Drafting etc.

I found the following comment interesting: "how many of you have read the AKC rules for Drafting" since I tried 12 "Searches" on the AKC website so that I might read the rules or anything else. I got a few pages having to do with the "first draft" of some rule or proposal like "PAWS" but NOTHING about Drafting. That tends to make it a little difficult to know what the rules say when you can't locate any. I wonder how many other people ran into the same problem?


 
Posted By: Johnzer

Posted On: Aug 20
Views: 850
 
Danes abilty to compete in drafting

Some have, Danehaven, Karen Martins Diamond Danes, Daynakins, are just a few that come to mind, how many of you have read the AKC rules for Drafting, its not the weight pulling contest, in the AKC drafting the dogs starts out pulling 20lbs and max out pulling there own weight, its more of a obedience trail than a weight pulling contest, the dog qualifies on doing what the handler asks him to do, in moving the cart, backing the cart moving slow, fast etc, before you condemn doing something find out what you are condemning …..

One of the comments I get from Working and All breed Judges is the lack of muscle tone in our breed, I think this is one of the reasons we don’t see more Danes placing in the group ring…

One of the saddest comments I have to make, is many years ago I contacted Martha Brock about breeding to Can. OTCH, AM/CAN CH. Danehaven's Rolling Thunder, UDT, Can UDTDX, WDX, U-CDX, HC, TDI, he was quite old at the time and already been neutered, and was told I was the first one to have asked, nobody else had ever asked to breed to him…. Here was the most titled Dane in history and no one ever used him…. And he lived a long normal healthy life……… I think this was a great loss to the breed,

Are you saying our Danes are going the way the Conformation German Shepard has, from a good working dog to the over angulated thing we see stumbling around the ring now days……….. Grace, beauty and elegance, IMO you need brains and ability to properly achieve the first three

I guess I am a radical, I believe a Dane and there person should be able to compete if they choose in akc drafting, lure coursing, tracking, and the Carriage dog title that the Dalmatian people have, I also believe the Dane should be able to compete in the new Working dog title the AKC has come up with, if you chose not to that’s fine but don’t put obstacles in my way for me to be able to compete….

John


 
Posted By: not seeing it in today's dane

Posted On: Aug 19
Views: 951
 
Drafting

hmmmmm seems like our guys have a history of doing this job

But have breeders continued to breed with this practice in mind? Can you honestly look at todays American dane and say they look toned
and fit for this type of work today? Looking at the European
danes, I might buy it, ours, no way.
Whether we like it or not, ours has evolved into a showy "head" breed with the true air
of the Apollo of dogs. Grace, beauty and elegance. Not straining, slobbering, and exhausted. We can push any dog to try anything,
is this the direction we want to go with our breed?



 
Posted By: johnzerd1

Posted On: Aug 19
Views: 970
 
History of drafting in Danes


The following data has been compiled by Norvel Benoit in the capacity as GDCA Historical Chairman. It is for informational and entertainment purposes only and copyrighted to The Great Dane Club of America, Inc. Unless quote credited otherwise informational source was Donald Gauthier, a former GDCA President.


"DID YOU KNOW?"
THE FIRST STANDARD

I WAS A FRIEND OF A GROUP OF GERMAN GREAT DANE BREEDERS THAT MIGRATED AND SETTLED IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THIS COUNTRY DURING AND AFTER WWI. I WAS PARTICULARLY CLOSE TO JACK STEINBACHER. OTHERS WERE CHARLES KAPP, CHARLES LUDWIG, JOHN HARTMETZ AND GUS KLEV. ALL THAT I AM GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME BY THESE GREAT GERMAN BREEDERS AND IS AUTHENTIC:

THEY WERE ALL EMPLOYED IN THE MEAT INDUSTRY IN GERMANY. IT SEEMS THAT THE BUTCHER SHOPS, BEFORE ELECTRIC REFRIGERATION, ONLY HAD THE ABILITY TO KEEP A ONE DAY SUPPLY CHILLED WITH ICE. EVERY CITY HAD A CENTRAL REFRIGERATING FACILITY WHERE ALL MEAT WAS STORED AND IT WAS THE DUTY OF ALL BUTCHER EMPLOYEES TO TRANSPORT A ONE DAY SUPPLY OF MEAT BACK TO THE RETAIL SHOP. THEY USED CARTS IN THE SUMMER AND SLEDS IN THE WINTER. SINCE IT WAS A HEAVY LOAD TO PULL THEY USED ANIMALS AND SOON FOUND THE GREAT DANE WAS BETTER FOR THAT PURPOSE THAN ANY OTHER DOG. EVENTUALLY THE GREAT DANE WAS BEING USED BY THE RETAIL MEAT MARKETS ALL OVER GERMANY AND THE EMPLOYEES THAT NEEDED TO USE THEM BEGAN TO BREED THEM BY SETTING RULES AND A STANDARD FOR THEM TO PRODUCE THE BEST DOGS. SO THIS, MY FRIEND, WAS OUR FIRST “STANDARD” FOR BREEDING BETTER GREAT DANES.

hmmmmm seems like our guys have a history of doing this job


 
Posted By: Kathy Williams

Posted On: Aug 17
Views: 1046
 
Drafting

I have used my Danes since I have had Danes and kids for pulling wagons, but I don't believe that Danes are made for pulling anything extremely heavy. I have owned arabian horses and they are "known" as the versatile breed, but I don't think the Great Dane really needs to fall into that category. They are quite good at being family pets and protectors w/o being aggressive. They do well at obedience w/o becoming robot dogs. But I think if someone wants to do carting, more power to them.. I know I probably won't. I am quite happy with them pulling the grandkids in a wagon!!!


 
Posted By: Chantel O. Johnson

Posted On: Aug 16
Views: 1150
 
Drafting? Carting? How about Coursing?

Drafting isn't historically known in Great Danes as far as I've read. And isn't carting different than drafting?? Which is it we want?? Correct me if I'm wrong. If people want to do things with their Danes.....fine with me. I'm all for Danes getting out there and showing that they can still work and be beautiful, too. But personally, I think if we are to add a new event for Danes to do it should be coursing. Coursing is at least closer to what Danes were originally bred to do.


 
Posted By: Scot Billings

Posted On: Aug 16
Views: 1198
 
Drafting (Carting) & problems?

My worry is that ultimately the current carting being stated as "Drafting" will ultimately generate a change to actual Drafting. Drafting infers very heavy loads & normally uses Draft animals while pulling Carts (Carriages) is not normally making use of a Draft animal.

Putting that aside I really wonder when it is said that arthritis & muscle/joint issues are something we are trying to "overcome". As far as I know those "issues" are more age related & are genetic ONLY to the point of affecting "animals with joints", not specific groups or breeds.


 
Posted By: annonymous

Posted On: Aug 16
Views: 1205
 
Drafting

http://pets1st.com/articles/00001GettingStartedwithDrafting.asp

Look at the above article. They speak of
arthritis free and muscle/joint issues.
Isnt this exactly one problem we are working on overcoming in our breed now? Subjecting danes to this
stress on the Muscle/skeletal structure is
asking for more trouble in our breed IMO
Danes were not made for this type of work.


 
Posted By: Anonymous

Posted On: Aug 15
Views: 1255
 
Drafting/sledding

If AKC approves this does it mean the GDCA could/would offer these events at the National and add more days to the already long enough event?


 
Posted By: Bewildered

Posted On: Aug 15
Views: 1328
 
Drafting

Drafting? Historically danes were known
for chasing down wild boar and then guardians
of estates and milk wagons. Neither of these
jobs required strength in pulling. They
were not "designed" for this type of work.
Leave this to the true "drafting types".
Geesh, our dogs cannont cross over to
every dog sport, who thought of this and what's next, sled pulling???


 
Posted By: Sharron Barney

Posted On: Aug 14
Views: 1435
 
safety

Our breed SHOULD be a natural athelete and competing in Drafting Events should not be a problem in an adult dog.


 
Posted By: Dumb again

Posted On: Aug 12
Views: 1553
 
Safe?

Is this safe for a giant breed's joints. Maybe not right away but in the future.


 
Posted By: Mary Anne

Posted On: Aug 12
Views: 1567
 
Drafting

This refers to competitive events where the dog or teams of dog pull carts, as is seen in Bernese Mountain Dogs, Greater Swiss, etc.