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Do you think it serves the best interests of PUREBRED DOGS for the AKC to be entering into contractual agreements with pet store chains who sell puppies? [274 votes total]

 
YES (15) 5%
NO (259) 95%
 


 
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Posted By: Mary Anne Zanetos

Posted On: 3 days ago
Views: 452
 
AKC-Petland Deal Killed

Thanks to all of you who joined me in this battle. Guess what? We prevailed!



Billie Ponton
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: owner-delegates@akc.org
To: Undisclosed-recipients:;
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:06:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID:


At the September Delegates Meeting AKC reported that we had reached an
agreement with Petland in order to facilitate the registration of dogs
that are already AKC registrable.
Precedence: bulk

AKC's Board of Directors and management believed that this agreement
would have helped to further the mission of the AKC. Promoting
responsible dog ownership to new puppy owners, implementing our care and
conditions policies, and exposing more dog owners to AKC educational
programs and services would have had even greater reach.

In the past few weeks we have received many comments about this
agreement, both positive and negative. We have listened to the concerns
and because this issue has become so divisive, we believe it is in the
best interest of our sport and the American Kennel Club not to go forward
with this initiative.

Ron Menaker, Chairman of the Board
Dennis B. Sprung, President and CEO



 
Posted By: Scot Billings

Posted On: 3 days ago
Views: 483
 
GDCA

I find it a little self-defeating to degrade the seriousness of the question on this poll by changing it to nothing but an attempt to degrade GDCA. I had to reread the GDCA letter to the AKC board because I couldn't remember any part of it that inferred "personal gain" & I still cannot twist it enough to come out with any "personal gain". I have a few gripes about the GDCA Board but none of them would bring me to question the integrity of the Boardor the GDCA in general (as I see in many of the "answers" to the question of this poll. The "Code of Ethics" &, more important, the "Color Code" are not things that GDCA can really enforce easily even if they are "Laws" (which is a definition of the word Code). Since everyone that signs the application infers the acceptance (a few years ago it wasn't inferred but was sworn to by signing) they should be enforcing those laws upon themselves. Re: the GDCA Board itself, every member has to remember that if they didn't vote on every ballot, Board & others, has to take the total blame for the errors of the people elected. I often hear "It doesn't make any difference if I vote because the wrong people will win anyway." but the reason it happens that way is that those people that do NOT vote become the majority & that majority said, loud & clear, "I don't give a damn!". Of course later they are the ones that complain.

The Question was "Do you think it serves the best interests of PUREBRED DOGS for the AKC to be entering into contractual agreements with pet store chains who sell puppies?" but we have better answered a lot of other questions not asked.


 
Posted By: Sally Lynn

Posted On: 3 days ago
Views: 501
 
GDCA

I would like to put my two cents on this one. I am not surprised by the content of the letter from the GDCA. I have felt for a few years now that personal gain by some was far more important than our Great Danes. Now maybe I am asking too much from the GDCA. You would think that the leadership is who we are to look to for making decisions and help our breed be the best it can be. Well sorry people, I don't think so. How long has it been since the GDCA stood by their ethics?
I joined GDCA and read the application that we signed. I was very excided to become a member. Boy was I surprised when I found out that the Code of Ethics, which was for all of us & applied to all of us, was not true. There were special people that could do what they wanted and it was okay.
So after reading Ray's editoral, which we agree with, we will also continue doing our best to protect our breed. Love our dogs as always, you see they don't care about AKC or GDCA.
Craig & I are very lucky to have mentors that are as passionate about our Breed as we are. Thank You Ray, Mary Anne, and Nancy
Craig & Sally Lynn


 
Posted By: anon

Posted On: 3 days ago
Views: 508
 
GDCA board

GDCA. Come to a board meeting it happens all the time.

Of course it happens all the time... and alot of good it does . I had to laugh over that as probably did the rest of the dane population. And to all of you old timers who bravely state , sign your name ? Easy for you to say: I have SEEN y'all unrighteously come down harshly on some who has signed their names simply because they speak the truth .
signed
ANON


 
Posted By: Scot Billings

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 564
 
PetLand or Hunte Corp?

I am afraid that the outrage is a little late. I am not too surprised at AKC for it's contract with PetLand since it was the next logical step after their contract, or agreement, with Hunte Corp.

AKC's biggest error was to think that they will get more registrations from pet owners by contracting with Pet Shops. I know of quite a few people that have pets with an excellent pedigree for both parents that have not registered their pet with anyone since they realize that they get NO benefit from registration. The biggest reason for the drop in number of registrations comes from the fee increases that AKC, & some other registries, have made. The people that I know that have not registered are wealthy enough that the money is not an issue at all. They wouldn't register if it was free.

The biggest source of AKC's income comes from breeders & show people (all groups of showing) & that is the group that they have just irritated. This is also the group that should have been making more of a fuss about the connection with Hunte Corp.

I am afraid that since AKC didn't think very well before making those TWO connections that they won't think about changing the error they made until the major damage is the AKC income. That will probably be too late to correct it. They don't seem willing to listen to reason since their mind is made up. All of their responses seem to say "You don't understand the situation!" but I think it is AKC that doesn't understand the situation.

Time will Tell.


 
Posted By: Dave Miller

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 591
 
AKC-Petland

We all need to consider the options that exist in the real world.
How many of you are willing to stop going to AKC sanctioned dog shows?
How many of you will go to one of the other registration organizations to register your puppies.
I believe that AKC like most organizations does many good things and some that fit in other categories. I like many of you are am not happy with this agreement. But the way to deal with it is from the inside. From what I have seen the entire fancy finds this action very unpalatable and our friends at AKC will take note of that. It is our responsibility as individuals to make the breed clubs and all breed clubs that we belong to take action through our AKC representitives.
I too have used a number of appropriate adjectives in discussing this issue, however I asked my self if I was willing to go the other way, that ansewer was no.
By the way Anon, where did you get the idea that speaking out on an issue would cause you difficulty in obtaining memebership in the GDCA. Come to a board meeting it happens all the time.

Dave Miller


 
Posted By: anon

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 625
 
anon

I'm an applicant awaiting GDCA membership and do not need retaliation by the Board.

Good reason?


 
Posted By: Mimi Kim

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 629
 
comments

I think that although "Anon 1 and Anon 2" have shared some passionate comments, they need to put their names out there. Everyone else has. Why hide about this issue?


 
Posted By: Carol

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 636
 
GDCA Homework

Sorry. The link is:

http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/Editorials/06_Sold.Out.By.AKC_09.asp


 
Posted By: Carol

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 641
 
GDCA Needs to Do Their Homework

I completely agree with anon. who suggested that GDCA officers are out of touch with reality.

They don't even read what's on their own website:

http://www.gdca.org/wordsofwisdom/wordsofwisdom10.htm

Nor do they grasp that this current deal with AKC is the culmination of a series of business deals by which AKC is aiding the puppy mill industry. See the article below or just Google on Petland and AKC. They will get an eye opener!

http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/Editorials/06_Sold.Out.By.AKC_09.asp< br />


 
Posted By: Lynn

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 671
 
Moral Clarity

Isn't this AKC/Petland deal a bit like the Catholic church opening an abortion clinic?

(Insert same justification....After all, women will get abortions anyway and we might as well capture that market since there's not much money in bingo).

Most of us don't need to read the contract to know it's wrong.


 
Posted By: Lourdes

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 682
 
PetLand

I might be very naive about this, but I have been asking AKC to disclose the contract with PetLand.
I have also asked the GDCA Board, as part of it, to demand AKC a disclosure of said contract.
As AKC members, we are entitled to know.

There are some things to consider about this issue, but I do not feel comfortable with AKC's response to the fancy's questions.
If they have nothing to hide, why will they not release the contract for all of us to look at? It certainly would solve many doubts.

This opinion is strictly a personal one and does not involve the GDCA Board.


 
Posted By: Jane Chopson

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 706
 
Petland

Susan Please don't view my comments as defending AKC rather I am just saying this is a complex issue with no really simple or easy solutions.


 
Posted By: Susan

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 708
 
GDCA Defending AKC

Now we've identified 2 GDCA officials that are defending AKC. How many more of them are there?


 
Posted By: Jane Chopson

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 718
 
Petland


I just looked at the AKC website carefully and it seems there is alot of info on selecting a breeder and nothing to encourage buying a dog from a Pet shop. Could more be done of course. It is something that Parent clubs and all breed clubs should fight for.
In addition it might be good if people could own their responses by signing their names when posting.


 
Posted By: Mary Anne Zanetos

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 777
 
AKC Petland Deal

Kathy Varian suggests the those so strongly opposed to the AKC contract with Petland should consider using another registry for their breeding stock and show animals? This would, of course, be the ultimate step in stopping actions of the AKC of which one disapproves since in time AKC would cease to exist.

I don't think many opposed to AKC's contract with Petland are prepared to walk away from AKC at this point. I suspect most would prefer to try to work within the system to put pressure on AKC to reconsider not only this particular business agreement, but also the larger issue of whether "the champion of dogs" should be partnering with a very unsavory industry which produces these AKC registerable puppies.

I think many were hoping for a strongly worded statement from the GDCA that our code of ethics forbids sale of puppies to pet stores and as such they could not support the proposed AKC/Petland contract. To me and many others, its not a matter finding out the details of AKC's contract with Petland. It's the PREMISE of the contract that's objectionable. I cannot think of any circumstances under which I would support selling deliberately produced, purebred puppies at pet stores. The details of the contractual arrangements are, therefore, completely irrelevant. Something that's morally wrong is wrong no matter how you package it.


 
Posted By: Kathy Varian

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 829
 
Petland

Will those so strongly opposed to the AKC contract with Petland consider using another registry for their breeding stock and show animals? This would, of course, be the ultimate step in stopping actions of the AKC of which one disapproves since in time AKC would cease to exist. Honestly, I am not in support of such a move and am conflicted on the entire matter. AKC puppies regardless of their breeding or quality have always been registrable with AKC. I think the actions we currently see from the AKC represent a trend and that we are at the end of the tunnel and the light coming at us is a train and not the other end. Opinions expressed herein are my own and not those of BOD of the GDCA whose officers and directors are seeking additional information with regard to the Petland contract at this time. I would urge those with strong opinions and a desire to serve the Breed to consider running for a BOD position in the future so that your views can be heard and expressed. As always, the members of the BOD stand ready to discuss the situation with anyone interested in doing so - just ask. Kathy


 
Posted By: Susan

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 860
 
Jane's Defense of AKC

Jane says......While we all deplore the sale of puppies in Pet shops it is none the less a reality that neither AKC or the GDCA can change that.

My question to Jane is why does she assume GDCA can do nothing to change that?

That's why dog lovers are so mad. It's not inevitable that puppies have to be sold in pet stores. Maybe Jane and GDCA have a different vision of reality.


 
Posted By: anon2

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 862
 
Educating The Public????

Jane says...."While we all deplore the sale of puppies in Pet shops it is none the less a reality that neither AKC or the GDCA can change that. So to some extent the question becomes what we can do to reach those who do end up buying a pup in a Pet shop to educate them on the care and training of their Dane and hopefully discourage the breeding of that animal?

My question to AKC and to Jane is, Why is AKC not devoting it's EDUCATIONAL EFFORTS toward discouraging folks from buying puppies from pet stores?

The answer is obvious. That's not a profitable venture. Anyone who's read AKC's info on their alliance with Petland knows this is all about capturing registration dollars. They really make no bones about their motives. All the talk about educating the public is just putting deodorant on the pile of ****. AKC can engage in all sorts of public outreach without getting in the gutter with Hunte Corp.

GDCA needs to wake up.



 
Posted By: anon

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 874
 
Knee Jerk Reaction?

Jane says......"I agree with that but none the less if they are eligible for registration under current rules we have no ability to stop that registration. So while not necessarily in favor of the this seeming AKC Petland alliance the issue is a complex one for which knee jerk reactions are neither appropriate nor helpful."

Jane: The issue is not about trying to prevent the registration of AKC eligible puppies sold in pet stores.

The issue is that if AKC is truly the "champion of dogs" as they say in their ads, then why are they not working to prevent animal cruelty and abuse by outlawing sales of puppies in pet stores? Instead they are promoting and encouraging it.

If that's a knee jerk reaction, then let me poke myself in the eye!


 
Posted By: Sean

Posted On: 4 days ago
Views: 881
 
Petland and Hunte Corp.

Does no one remember that Hunte Corp. supplies Petland with all their "USDA" puppies? AKC's alliance with the Hunte Corp is not new news, this has been a long time coming.



 
Posted By: Jane Chopson

Posted On: 5 days ago
Views: 920
 
Petland

Putting on my flame proof suit and hazarding a reply. I am a current GDCA Board member and would be happy to discuss this issue with anyone. The GDCA letter to AKC asks for a reconsideration of the contract. It says we have serious concerns about it. Granted it does not use the inflamatory retoric some might like but I think is pretty clear that we don't like what happened.
On a personal note I am not saying I am necessarily in support of this contract but I do not believe the issue is nearly a simple as some try to make it.
While we all deplore the sale of puppies in Pet shops it is none the less a reality that neither AKC or the GDCA can change that. So to some extent the question becomes what we can do to reach those who do end up buying a pup in a Pet shop to educate them on the care and training of their Dane and hopefully discourage the breeding of that animal? When the dog is AKC registered Parent clubs have the opportunity to contact the buyer via educational material that AKC sends when the dog is registed. If the dog is registered with another registry or not at all no information can be provided. Some would argue that encouraging AKC registration appears as an AKC endorsement of the Petland chain. However we must remember these dogs were already AKC registerable and the contract seems to only increase the chances the dog will be registered with AKC. I know some say "well these dogs are of such poor quality, questionable pedigree that they should not be registed with AKC". I agree with that but none the less if they are eligible for registration under current rules we have no ability to stop that registration. So while not necessarily in favor of the this seeming AKC Petland alliance the issue is a complex one for which knee jerk reactions are neither appropriate nor helpful.Just my thoughts and not necessarily those of the GDCA Board as a whole.


 
Posted By: anon

Posted On: 5 days ago
Views: 960
 
GDCA

Hey y'all. do NOT expect to hear a word from any of the ''leaders'' UNLESS it concerns them individually. I'm FOR that new slate 100%.


 
Posted By: anon

Posted On: 5 days ago
Views: 960
 
GDCA

With a complete new slate for GDCA we might salvage some of an administration that isnt out for personal gain and would again turn their attention to the wants & needs of members & the dogs themselves !


 
Posted By: Karen

Posted On: 5 days ago
Views: 964
 
AKC/Petland

OH, sorry, the topic should have read: Out of Touch.


 
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